Q&A with Jennifer & David Skelly

I've known Jennifer Skelly for a very long time—since our days in elementary school. When I learned that she and her husband/writing partner David Skelly had a story in the recent Batman 80-Page Giant, I took the opportunity to contact them to see if they would be willing to answer a few questions about their experience. They graciously agreed to take time out of their busy schedules to respond to my questions over email:

Am I correct that this is your first published comic book work?

DS: Our first published comic was a book called Zevo-3. It was a tie-in to an animated teen superhero TV series that we worked on for Nicktoons. After we had written several episodes of the show, the producer came to us and said, "Do you guys know anything about comic books? We're thinking about promoting the show with one."

JS: Considering our closets are filled with comic boxes, not clothes, we said, "yes..."

DS: The show, Zevo-3, was produced by Skechers Entertainment. They created original characters and backstories to go along with their different lines of kids' shoes.

JS: So we wrote a comic book that went into bazillions of Skechers shoe boxes!

DS: That book was so well-received that they asked us to write comics for all the rest of their properties. (I drew the breakdowns for those as well.)


What interested you in writing for comics?

DS: They say you are what you eat, and I ate a lot of comics as a kid.

JS: *snort*

DS: I love comics. I've read them all my life. It was a huge part of my childhood. They were my escape, my refuge from the real world. I started with Golden Key and Disney comics. I loved them, and in particular, the Uncle Scrooge comics that were written and drawn by Carl Barks. Even as a four- and five-year old I could recognize the quality of his work and distinguish it from other artists'. And then some years later, I discovered people like Chris Claremont, Walt and Louise Simonson, Wendy and Richard Pini, and Bill Sienkiewicz. Their work had such a huge impact on me — and helped shape me as a storyteller.

JS: My mom collected comic books, and as a little kid I had Archie and Donald Duck... but it was in college, when I met David, that my real love affair with comics began.

DS: And our love affair...

JS: Be quiet. I'm talking now. Where was I? Oh, yeah. Growing up, I knew and loved the DC characters. I was obsessed with comic book heroes on TV and in the movies — Richard Donner's Superman, Superfriends, Wonder Woman, Kenneth Johnson's The Incredible Hulk. But I didn't read comic books! And when David introduced me to the X-Men... wow. The characters were so flawed, so real, so human (even though they are super-human). I was hooked.

DS: In high school and college I wrote and drew a comic strip that was published in various papers, including University of Michigan's campus newspaper, The Michigan Daily. It was called Backyard Infinity. That was a great training ground for me. I learned a lot about storytelling in a visual medium, and in particular I learned a lot about brevity — making a point or making a joke with some very simple drawings and a few words. In fact, for a while, I challenged myself to write my strips with five words or less.

JS: And yet we tend to go on when being interviewed...

DS: In any case, drawing those comic strips was a direct link to the work I would later do with the Jim Henson Company and Pixar Animation Studios.

JS: As for writing comic books — we love the immediacy. In TV animation, it can be months —

DS: — or in the case of films, years —

JS: — before you see your work on the screen. In comics, there's such a fast turn-around from idea to finished product.

DS: Working on a film is like telling a joke and waiting three years to see if anybody laughs.

JS: Hahaha! That's funny!

DS: That's why I love you. You laugh at my jokes right away.



How did you get the Batman gig? Did you approach DC, or did they approach you? (Or perhaps your agent sacrificed a mint-condition copy of Giant-Size X-Men #1...)

JS: No, we approached DC.

DS: We’ve always found our own writing assignments — we’re blessed with an amazing network of friends and colleagues.

JS: One of those friends, a veteran in the comic book industry, was kind enough to introduce us to some editors at DC.

DS: We corresponded with those editors for quite a long time — months — waiting for the right opportunity to come along...

JS: I think we wore them down!

DS: Editor Rachel Gluckstern read our work and contacted us. She asked us if we’d like to pitch her a few Batman short stories.

JS: And we said, “Absolutely!”

DS: We wrote a few treatments — about a half a page each — and sent them to Rachel. She picked her favorite and we were off to the races!



How does writing a comic script compare to writing a film script?

JS: In terms of storytelling — there's absolutely no difference for us. We break the story for a 10-page comic exactly the same way we do for a 90-page feature film.

DS: Every story is about transformation. How does a character change? That's what's most interesting for us as storytellers.

JS: Though there are a few differences in the way we actually write the script.

DS: A comic book script is like personal letter to the artists. Even with artists that we never meet, we feel there's a kind of intimate collaboration. There are so many people involved in the production of a television show or film, but in its purest form, a comic book is made by a very small group of people.


Tell me more about breaking your Batman/Catwoman story. Where did the idea come from? Why did you decide to do it as a 'silent' story?

DS: Larry Hama's wordless story, "Silent Interlude," for G.I. Joe #21 really made an impression on me as a kid. I've always remembered that, and thought it would be a fun challenge to write a script with no words — and no sound effects.

JS: Film and TV are a visual medium, and for us, the acid test to know whether or not a story works is by turning the sound off. Do the images alone convey the story?

DS: Alfred Hitchcock said dialogue should be one of the many background noises in a film. We adhere to that when we're writing a script for film or television, and we feel the same about writing a script for comics. How can we keep the exposition to a minimum, and still tell a compelling, emotional story? That's the challenge.

JS: Partners and lovers have a short-hand that they use to communicate: half-sentences, looks, gestures —

DS: — and Batman and Catwoman have such a long history — they don't necessarily need to speak with one another to convey a variety of feelings. This felt like the perfect opportunity to tell a story with no words.


Did you know ahead of time who your artists were going to be? Did you have any direct communication with the artists, or was it all through the script and the editor?

DS: For this story, we didn't know who the artists would be. And because of that, we knew the script had to convey as much as possible. But we're always careful to leave room for the artists' interpretations. This is a collaborative medium, and everyone involved in the process brings their own point of view and artistry. The result is inevitably even better than what we'd imagined!

JS: This is the editor's show. For the Batman 80-Page Giant, Rachel Gluckstern was responsible for hiring us, and finding just the right artists for our story.

DS: The editor is like the producer of a film. They're responsible for deciding which stories will be made, putting the team together, and making sure it gets done on schedule and on budget.



I've often said that everyone has at least one Batman story in them; was this your definitive Batman story, or would you want to work again with the character?

DS: We have countless Batman stories we'd like to tell! We hope this is the first of many.


The two of you together teach a workshop on improv for writers; how did your improv talents come into play in writing this story? (I have visions of the two of you acting out the plot in your living room, with your son looking on with bewilderment...!)

JS: Well... we didn’t act out THIS script in front of him...

DS: Yeah, it’s kind of all sex and violence. He's only two.

JS: Improv, for us, is a way of life. Which was made especially clear to us after we had a kid.

DS: Being willing to play, being flexible, being open to new ideas — that’s what improv is all about.

JS: And that informs everything we do — including our writing. We let the characters talk to us. We write from their point of view. And we let them lead us down unexpected paths.

DS: There’s an improv game called “New Choice.” It’s one of our favorites. Whether we’re on stage performing, or at our laptops writing — we make an “offer” (a character does or says something in the context of the scene) and someone else yells, “new choice!” at which point we have to immediately — without thinking — rewind to the last action or line and redo it.

JS: And then we have to justify that new information. It’s the ultimate test of flexibility.

DS: So we play a lot of New Choice when we’re writing. We push each other to come up with something else, something better, something unexpected (but still truthful).

JS: We’re constantly asking ourselves, can that line of dialogue be funnier? More dramatic? Can this scene be more emotional? And the answer is almost always “yes.”


Why Batman? What interests you in Batman as a character?

JS: Oh! Me first! I've loved the Batman family of characters since I was a kid. I was Batgirl for Halloween in Kindergarten, 1st grade, and 2nd grade.

DS: Did you wear the same costume every year?

JS: Yes. I grew slowly. Anyway... I watched the 60's TV show religiously (and screamed in joy when Batgirl's motorcycle drove into the opening credits). And then, years later, Tim Burton's Batman rocked my world.

DS: For me, Batman is cathartic. He's the antithesis to the work I've done with Sesame Street or the Toy Story characters. Bruce Wayne is so screwed up. So tormented. So dark. And I can relate with that on a deep level.

JS: (He says while wearing a Muppet T-shirt.)

DS: I'm not saying I don't love that stuff, too! But reading — and now writing — Batman stories is a great way for me to exorcise those dark demons inside.

JS: Is that "exorcise" or "exercise?"

DS: C'mon. I'm being serious.

JS: Me too. I'm serious. See? I have Batman and Catwoman Lego figures on my desk.

DS: That is a weird non-sequitur. You and your Lego.


What would you say is your all-time favorite Batman story, and why?

JS: I'd have to go back to the movies... Batman Forever, but not the Penguin stuff — he was gross (no offense, Danny DeVito, you were supposed to be gross) — but ANY of the Catwoman/Batman stuff. The scene where they've just kicked the bleep out of each other, then have a date and start getting all touchy-feely but each is trying to keep the other from discovering their new scars. And then the scene when they're dancing and realize who each other are, and Michelle Pfeiffer says, "Does this mean we have to start fighting?" and Michael Keaton just pulls her close... makes me cry every time.

DS: My go-to is still Frank Miller's The Dark Night Returns. It's just great storytelling. Makes me cry every time.


What are some comics that you particularly enjoy? Who are the comic creators that you admire?

DS: We've both really been enjoying Brian Michael Bendis' work. His scripts for The Avengers, Ultimate Spider-Man, and Scarlet, have been particularly compelling for us.

JS: Geoff Johns' Flash and Green Lantern. Joss Whedon.

DS: Mark Millar, Frank Miller, J. Michael Straczynski. And as far as artists go, Alex Maleev, John Romita, Jr., Jim Lee, Mike Mignola...

JS: ...Frank Cho, Gurihiru's work on the Power Pack cross-over series.

DS: There are so many! And of course, the people we mentioned before — The Simonsons, Bill Sienkiewicz — were and continue to be so influential on us and on our work. We were so thrilled that Bill wanted to do the finishes on our Batman story for the 80-Page Giant!

JS: We're huge Bill Sienkiewicz fans, both professionally and personally.

DS: We're often fans of the people we're collaborating with. It's out of respect for what they've done, and who they are as human beings. And even though we may also be fans of the source material that we're helping to shepherd, we're aware that as fans, we run the risk of being too precious with the work.

JS: And the last thing we want to do is be too careful or cautious to take risks —

DS: It's our responsibility as storytellers to stay true to the tone and spirit of the source material, but also to push the boundaries.

JS: To take risks!

DS: To explore new aspects or dimensions of these characters we love. To tell stories that are relevant to today's audience, not just to rehash old material or preserve something from the past. We're not archivists, we're architects —

JS: — building on a foundation that someone else has laid.

DS: Hey, that sounds pretty good!

JS: We're passionate about what we do. We're passionate about telling great stories.

DS: And we're honored to be contributing to DC's long legacy of great storytelling.


Are there other comics characters that you would be interested writing?

JS: How much time do you have?

DS: Should I list them in alphabetical order? Seriously, there are so many. Top of my list would be more Batman... and then Spider-Man, Daredevil, Dr. Strange, Superman...

JS: I see a pattern here. For me, Wonder Woman, Kitty Pryde, Dazzler, Barbara Gordon, Rachel Summers...

DS: I'd love to write a Barbara Gordon story! Let's do that! And we've always wanted to write a Cloak and Dagger story.

JS: And the New Mutants.

DS: Love Illyana Rasputin.

JS: And the Lone Ranger.

DS: Really? I didn't know that.

JS: There should always be mystery in a relationship.


Both comics and film are visual storytelling mediums. What do you see are some of the strengths and weaknesses of comics as compared to film for telling stories?

JS: They're so different. Do you like ice cream or pudding?

DS: Huh? Um. Ice cream?

JS: The experience of seeing a movie is so different than reading a comic book. As those experiences are different from playing a video game or seeing a play. But it's all storytelling. How we choose to enjoy those stories is a matter of preference that can change from person to person or day to day.

DS: That's true. Some days I prefer pudding.


What is up next for the Skellys? Any more comics gigs on the horizon? (Plug away!)

DS: We’ve got several feature films projects that we’re developing. We’ve just started pitching them to the major studios and producers in Hollywood.

JS: We’re collaborating with some of the most talented filmmakers and conceptual artists in the industry.

DS: And we’ve got a few television projects in the works as well. We've also been doing a lot script doctoring...

JS: We’re teaching an ongoing Improv for Writers workshop in Los Angeles. (improvforwriters.com)

DS: And we’re continuing to write comic books! Wow! I guess we’re kind of busy... We should probably get back to work!





A big thanks to Jennifer and David for taking the time to talk with me. You can follow Jennifer on Twitter @jenniferskelly and on the Web at http://jenniferskelly.com ; and follow David on Twitter @davidlskelly and on the Web at http://davidskelly.com. And hopefully find their next comic book on the shelves of your local comic shop soon!

Interview with Jim Ottaviani

Jim Ottaviani is the writer of highly-regarded comics that feature the true stories of science and scientists, comics such as Two-Fisted Science; Dignifying Science; Fallout; Suspended in Language; and Bone Sharps, Cowboys, and Thunder Lizards. Last week I interviewed Jim (via email) on the occasion of his new graphic 'novel' T-Minus: The Race to the Moon, due out next week from Simon & Schuster's Alladin imprint. Along with artists Zander Cannon & Kevin Cannon (with whom Jim last worked with on Bone Sharps), in T-Minus Jim tells the story-behind-the-story of the famed space race.


YACB: Your new book, T-Minus, is about the race to the Moon. What made you decide to cover this topic?

JimO: There are a bunch of reasons, but here's the one that comes to mind today, in part because I know you're an engineer: I find the space race inspiring because of the tremendous achievements made by U.S. and Soviet engineers in the 1960s, and the way it captured the whole world's imagination. It's rare that something that is essentially a technology-driven endeavor results in such great drama and interest -- I mean, I rely on and enjoy owning a personal computer as much as the next guy, but can't see "Macintosh: The Graphic Novel" as something I'd want to write or someone would want to read.

Now that I've said that, someone will probably do it and prove me wrong, and that would be great.

But back to your question, it was fantastic theater, and the whole world watched it.


YACB: How do you think doing this story as a comic makes it different from the many books/movies/etc. that have covered this topic in the past?

JimO: Besides being comics? That makes it different right off the bat, never mind that Zander Cannon and Kevin Cannon are great visual storytellers, so you get really good comics as well. Because it's comics, I think we were able to pack a great deal of story into relatively few pages, so that's another departure. Finally, most of the books you'll read focus only on the astronauts and cosmonauts. Those people were courageous, smart, and interesting, but the scientists and engineers they put their trust in rarely appear in the popular histories. So that's the last one.


YACB: I know that you do copious research for your books. What did you discover about the space race that was surprising?

JimO: One thing I half-knew, and the other thing I didn't know at all. The part that I had an inkling of was the amount of effort that went into this adventure. I knew a lot of people worked hard, but the amount of unpaid overtime put in by hundreds of thousands of people in the U.S. amazed me. You sometimes hear criticism of the space program as a bad way to spend taxpayer dollars. I believe there is and was waste in NASA, and I believe many things could have been done better. But I think we got a lot of bang -- rocket-fueled pun intended -- for our buck.

The other thing that struck me was the environmental message that the astronauts brought back from their journeys. These men, hard-core pragmatists all, type-A test pilots down to the last of 'em, unsentimental almost to a fault...when they saw the whole earth from space they all commented on how fragile and precious it was, and how it put the problems of taking care of the world into appropriate perspective. Read the address to Congress that Aldrin, Armstrong, and Collins made:

http://usinfo.org/PUBS/LivingDoc_e/moonlanding.htm

It reads almost as if it was a manifesto of the nascent environmental movement. While that's overstating it some, their statements are not what you'd expect from ex-military guys who most would consider representatives of the establishment. I find that remarkable, and uplifting.


YACB: Previously most of your comics work has been self-published, but T-Minus is coming from a 'regular' book publisher (Aladdin). Why the change? Who approached whom?

JimO: No particular reason for the change, other than to try something new. I can't remember the exact sequence of events, but I'm pretty sure they approached my agent. He was putting together a number of non-fiction book proposals, and asked me what I'd do if given the chance. "T-Minus!" I said. Or something to that effect. As you might guess, the original proposal is a distant cousin to the finished book, but the basic idea of telling the story of the space race from an engineering/science perspective, with the Soviet program prominently featured, was there from the start.

As for why... at the risk of sounding nonchalant and careless with my so-called career, it's at least partly true to say that I figured, why not? If they didn't like the proposal, it would get me started thinking about this story, which is one I knew I wanted to do someday, either on my own or with a larger company.


YACB: Your artists on T-Minus, Zander Cannon & Kevin Cannon, previously worked with you on Bone Sharps. How did this pairing come about again? Did working with artists you've worked with before make things easier/better? What strengths do you feel that Zander & Kevin bring to illustrating your scripts?

JimO: The pairing came about because here again, my agent asked me who I'd want to work with, and who could we suggest that would convince them to say yes. I figured it would be easy for them to say yes if we could show Aladdin that if they just let us do our thing, the worst case scenario is that they'd get something as nice as Bone Sharps. Which, as worst-case scenarios go, is pretty sweet.

So Zander and Kevin were my first choice for it, and they were interested, and boom -- just like that we were off and running. And running in step, so to speak, since working with them was easy. It was easy on Bone Sharps, and we'd never done a project together before, and now they knew what to expect from me, and I from them. I don't know how to describe it other than in terms of picking up a relationship right where we left off.

As for strengths, I don't know where to start. They can draw anything. They always serve the story, and never show off their artistic chops just for the sake of showing off their artistic chops... of which they have many. When they make changes to what I specify in the script, they have reasons. They're not always ones I agree with, but they're always worth thinking about and discussing and often worth changing the script and the upstream or downstream storytelling to accommodate their ideas. They fill in the visual gaps in my research. They can draw convincing people and machines and dinosaurs and scenes on earth and in space and in the past.

Is that enough? I'm not done, but I think you get the idea... they're professionals in all the best senses of the word, and yet they're also friends. As collaborators they're as easy and as enjoyable to work with as can be.


YACB: Having now examined in-depth the engineering side of the space program, do you agree with the assertion that what we learned from the process of going to the Moon was worth the cost?

JimO: I don't know if it was worth the engineering cost -- those sorts of things are too hard to quantify. Sorry to punt on that one, but I just can't draw a firm conclusion.

My gut says yes, though, and here's why. I just attended a talk by former astronaut and now Engineering Dean here at U-M Tony England, and in it he pointed out shortcomings of the International Space Station in terms of its scientific significance. One of the things he said struck me as an interesting contradiction, though. In the process of trying to design advanced manufacturing processes that they hope will take advantage of microgravity to produce better chips and such, engineers often come up with ways to make the improvements they wanted in the chips right here on earth. Sort of as a by-product of trying to figure out how to make things happen in space. So sure, that makes the space part beside the point, but there's still obvious value there, right? We got we wanted by virtue of being forced to think differently. And that's what we get when we put ourselves in these situations.

And as far as cost is concerned I will say this: Having looked at the numbers and made comparisons with things like the cost of the Vietnam war and what people spent on alcohol and tobacco during the Apollo era, the space program was a bargain. And as Andrew Smith pointed out in his wonderful book Moondust, if nothing else we got great theater out of it. And the cost of the space race in human lives was very low. Not zero, and we have to remember that always, but compared to war and booze and smokes? The human and dollar cost was very, very low.

And... we got more than great theater. Perhaps the most important is thing we learned is that if we really dedicate ourselves to a goal as a nation, as a species, we can do things in a few years that were unimaginable and inspiring.


YACB: What is your opinion of the current state of the US space program? Do you think that returning to the Moon is a good idea? How about going to Mars? Or should we keep doing near-Earth manned missions and unmanned probes and explorers?

JimO: My opinions are not as informed as I wish they were, but I will press on and not let ignorance get in the way of spouting off!

Current state: The Hubble telescope is magnificent, as are the Mars rovers. The shuttle is going away, about which some will say good riddance. The International Space Station is up there. It's international. It's a space station. It could be better, and better serve science, but...international! space station! I think those are good things for the human spirit. I just read about a possible change to the moon-base plans, so there's not much to say there other than Moon base! I like the idea, but maybe it's not a good one for all its appeal.

Return to the Moon: I've heard a number of convincing arguments, some directly from astronauts, that this isn't the best use of our resources. So I'm neutral to negative on it. But... Moon base! It's hard to let go of that idea.

Go to Mars: It will be very hard, and hard on the people that go. But I think we will try, and I think we should.

near-Earth and/or robotic probes: Gotta keep doing both, I think. Combining those with all of the above is a problem in terms of money, but you didn't ask me how to pay for any of this -- for which I thank you -- so I choose not to make any hard decisions today.


YACB: Knowing what you know, would you want to go into space yourself?

JimO: Yes. Full stop, sign me up, I'm ready to go right now.


YACB: Your publisher, Aladdin Paperbacks is Simon & Schuster's imprint for late elementary and early middle school kids. While all of your previous books have certainly been enjoyed by all ages, were there any challenges in making T-Minus as a book that is specifically targeted towards kids?

JimO: This is the second book I've written specifically with a young adult audience in mind, but the first won't come out for a while longer, so this is the first that readers will see.

Chronology aside, yes, there are challenges, but I was lucky to have my editor at Aladdin, Liesa Abrams, help me both understand them and figure out how to deal with them. They didn't involve dumbing the book down -- I think there's plenty of heft to the story and that adults will enjoy it too. I've been putting it this way when people ask: The young readers will have to bring their A game to the book.

But besides detail stuff like not depicting smoking and keeping a tight rein on the language to make sure it was age appropriate, one of the many things Liesa helped me do was find the right balance between gosh-wow technical material and the human element. It was hard, since we were dealing with iconic figures and far more story than you can fit between the covers of a single book, but our focus on the engineers and behind the scenes helped with the human element.


YACB: What's next for Jim Ottaviani and/or GT Labs?

JimO: Two books from First Second, and I'm working on two other books right now, about which I don't have a lot to say. Or rather I do, but I want to say it to myself first and be sure I mean it before talking about anything as basic as the general outline. But, to prove I'm crazy, one may not be comics and may not be non-fiction. The other is about Alan Turing. I'm excited about both stories! And after that, I think I found an angle on a third book in my science of the unscientific series. And after that... something else, I'm sure. I have a lot of story ideas waiting in the wings!


That concludes our interview. A big thanks to Jim for taking the time to answer my questions. You can read more about T-Minus, including an excerpt, at Jim's GT Labs Website.

Pay no attention to the fidgety guy in the green shirt

Apparently the Ann Arbor Book Festival has posted video of the first ten minutes of the interview I did with Paul Hornschemeier back in May. (Thanks to Dirk for pointing this out.)

For the rest of the interview (over an hour long!) I posted the audio of the entire thing w while back: Paul Hornschemeier Interview - Audio

Paul Hornschemeier Interview - Audio

Here's the raw audio of the on-stage interview I did with creator Paul Hornschemeier (Mother, Come Home; Let Us Be Perfectly Clear; etc.) at Saturday's Ann Arbor Book Festival:



(If the embed doesn't work, here's the direct link: download. It's about 64 MB.)

I unfortunately had the levels set too low, so you may have to turn your sound volume up pretty high to hear it.

It's over an hour long. I've done a few interviews in the past, but this was the first time I ever interviewed someone live and at length. As such, the topics of conversation kind of bounce around, but I still think it went well.

A big thanks to Paul, who was a great interview subject, interesting and entertaining, able to take my questions and run with them. If you're ever looking for someone to invite as a speaker, I can recommend him heartily.